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martinarcher

Poorman's Gate

225 posts in this topic

Well I can't ignore all the Surf Gate awesomeness anymore. I spent last night and this afternoon hacking away in the garage and came up with a gate that seems to work on my old Sunsetter. This is obviously a prototype and my goal was proof of concept to see what a gate would do on my hull and find out if it's worth actually drilling and mounting something to the transom After messing with it on the lake for a while - I'm a beleiver! I can't imagine what this does to Malibu's new hulls! Mine is far from what Maibu has come up with and needs a ton of work, but this was a test to see if it's worth pursuing. Two very big things I noticed on the water...

1. I'm guessing Malibu deploys their gate at 7mph because it makes slow speed steering TERRIBLE. My "gate" is pretty large and fixed (does not hinge from the deployed position) and it was almost impossible to turn against it at slow speed. It certainly took a bit longer to get on the trailer tonight. :lol: I think most of this is due to my gate being way too big and not "chamfered" up along the bottom like the production gates. I'll make a change tomorrow morning after church and test in the afternoon. The good news is Malibu's 2013's won't have any trouble with this since their gate's "stow" under 7mph. My poorman's gate doesn't have that luxury. :lol:

2. The gate does great things for the wake! I started with no weight in the boat. It truly is like a magic trick to watch a wave form with no list after weighting a boat fr surfing for years. The weightless wave was long, but not big enough to surf. I added 400lbs on each side of the dog box and dropped the floater and the wave was surfable. I could go ropeless, and what I immediately noticed was the wave was probably double the length it normally is which was awesome. While I could go ropeless, it didn't hve the push I was used to. I stopped and swapped my 400 lb bag on the surf side for my big surf sac (1200lb). I put probable 600 lbs in it and got very slight list going. I should also note, we were very light on crew tonight so we didn't have any weight helping us there. I hopped back on the board and WOW - awesomeness. I had a really nice wave that was very long for my boat and felt a bit higher than usual. I had a blast carving up and down the face of the wave. Normally I shorten the surf rope up by at least 8 feet and tonight I had the full length out and could go ropeless from the handle. Pretty cool having the extra length to play on.

I can tell you one thing - this thing will help Malibu sell boats and I'm pumped to see Malibu pushing the envelope and developing yet another thing that helps them stand above the rest in the boating industry. We stopped tonight and talked with a Centurion that is always surfing on our lake and the owner was pretty interested in the gate. He said he'll be checking out the 2013's when he get's home. :thumbup:

Now for the pics....

Wave with no gate and 1200lbs (900 on the surf side of the dogbox) and 300 in the locker.

NoSurfGate2.jpg

Wave with the gate and 1000lbs (600 surf side of dog box and 400 on the non-surf side). Locker empty. I need to try it tomorrow.

SurfgateWave.jpg

SurfgateWave4.jpg

SurfgateWave2.jpg

The contraption of redneck engineering. :lol: Yes that's a "C" clamp. :)

Surfgate2.jpg

Surfgate.jpg

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I'll buy one for $800. ;)

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:lol: If Malibu hires me to make them for aftermarket sales I'd be happy to. :lol:

I'm looking forward to building a much more permanent non-redneck model for my boat now that I've seen it work. :thumbup:

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Keep us posted!

Looks great!

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amazing how much it cleans the wake up. How are you attaching it to the transom? That's my only concern.

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I only have two attachment points an they are both on swim the platform. For a prototype/proof of concept project I didn't want to screw anything into the boat...yet.

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I only have two attachment points an they are both on swim the platform. For a prototype/proof of concept project I didn't want to screw anything into the boat...yet.

Can you send a pic or 2 when its outta the water??

That is increadible what your gate does to the wake.

Get out and patent that bad boy, you'll make tons of money, as eveeryone with an older can use your invention to surf!!

I just gotta say, there HAS to be some redneck in you to fabricate something like that!! ha ha

Edited by jkendallmsce
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I'm just messing around with a manual version of Malibu's gate. I didn't invent anything, Malibu came up with that one. I just made up a little wooden gate and fastened it to my teak deck. :lol:

Te other thing to notice in the pics above is how much wind chop there was last night. I'm really curious how clean it is today if the lake is smoother.

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I am convinced I can build one pretty easy for my boat. My concern now is the automation part....like you said the boat handles so poorly with it deployed.....how hard is it to integrate the actuators to the perfect pass? Sure we can build it but who wants to tackle the automation part. Thats the tough part for me.

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That's the part I'm going to really enjoy. I'm a Control and Automation Engineer and think that part will really be fun. I'm a geek by day and have a hard time turning it off at home. :lol:

The GPS speedometer I made for the boat will come in handy. I have a small micro controller reading the GPS receiver so it is fully aware of the boats speed. It will continue to run the display on the speedometer, but add the gate controls to the software. I'll integrate a few digital inputs for a "surf switch" and then use the outputs on the controller to run the actuators once the boat reaches a certain speed.

I figure most people will build gates they can manually deploy or retract with a pushrod or manual actuator. Heck with a trim tab kit you could have switches and a proportional gate set up pretty easily. You would just have to use the switch to retract and get the slow speed handling back.

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That's the part I'm going to really enjoy. I'm a Control and Automation Engineer and think that part will really be fun. I'm a geek by day and have a hard time turning it off at home. :lol:

The GPS speedometer I made for the boat will come in handy. I have a small micro controller reading the GPS receiver so it is fully aware of the boats speed. It will continue to run the display on the speedometer, but add the gate controls to the software. I'll integrate a few digital inputs for a "surf switch" and then use the outputs on the controller to run the actuators once the boat reaches a certain speed.

I figure most people will build gates they can manually deploy or retract with a pushrod or manual actuator. Heck with a trim tab kit you could have switches and a proportional gate set up pretty easily. You would just have to use the switch to retract and get the slow speed handling back.

I would like to be a "tester" for you!! CAn you make one that'll fit on my Bayliner??

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I would like to be a "tester" for you!! CAn you make one that'll fit on my Bayliner??

No way! Then I would be promoting surfing behind an I/O. :fingerwag:

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Awesome! Can we get a better pic of what is going on in in the drivers seat?

Edited by skurfer
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Any updates here? This looks so promising I'm eager to see the next phase.

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Well I'm still learning how to tune the wave with this gizmo on the boat. I messed with it some more tonight and was light on crew again. I need a day with a decent crew to learn more about what weight does in different locations of the boat. I did try the locker full tonight and it didn't seem to make much difference. I can say the wedge makes a big difference in the push the wave has. It seems if I get my rub rail on the surf side to touch water while underway the wave is really good. This of course means my boat still requires a slight list to get that rail to touch. That or I haven't put enough weight evenly in the boat. I'm looking forward to getting a crew of 6 or so and trying the gate with the boat weighted level again and see what happens.

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Isn't your "redneck-gate" basically acting like a trim tab and lifting the non-surf side? Why would you weight that side of the boat? You're trying to lift it to sink the surf side, right? :Doh: Granted, I'm just a slalom dog and, to be honest, people screwing up the water surfing just piss me off, but shouldn't all of the weight be on the surf side? Everything I've ever read about wakesurfing says all weight on surf side.

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Isn't your "redneck-gate" basically acting like a trim tab and lifting the non-surf side? Why would you weight that side of the boat? You're trying to lift it to sink the surf side, right? :Doh: Granted, I'm just a slalom dog and, to be honest, people screwing up the water surfing just piss me off, but shouldn't all of the weight be on the surf side? Everything I've ever read about wakesurfing says all weight on surf side.

I'm pretty sure somebody at the Malibu marketing department just got fired....

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your home brew surf gate has one hinge.

how much more control does it give you to add another hinge that allows the gate to change it's angle of attack (moving off the angle of the transom)?

yes, i know that multiple hinges pushing that much water is a problem but it's just a discussion starter.

in fact i'm more than a little in awe that you can push that much water and not have your c-clamp and/or swim platform end up looking like a pretzel!

guess the end point i'd head for is "can you cobble a set-up that would avoid that second hinge and yet allows you to adjust the plane of the gate"

and "if you can make that angle adjustment just how much does it change your wave"?

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Nice work Matt! Pretty cool to see in action! I'm going to try and get some more "testing" done on mine this week.

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Isn't your "redneck-gate" basically acting like a trim tab and lifting the non-surf side? Why would you weight that side of the boat? You're trying to lift it to sink the surf side, right? :Doh: Granted, I'm just a slalom dog and, to be honest, people screwing up the water surfing just piss me off, but shouldn't all of the weight be on the surf side? Everything I've ever read about wakesurfing says all weight on surf side.

Time to read up on surfgate. The gate isn't lifting the boat much if any. While under way with the boat evenly weighted there is very little if any list to the boat. It is delaying the convergence of the wakes that makes it work. By extending the one side of the boat, the water coming off the other side can rush back toward the center of the boat and create the wave as it meets the other wake father from the boat. That make sense?

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your home brew surf gate has one hinge.

how much more control does it give you to add another hinge that allows the gate to change it's angle of attack (moving off the angle of the transom)?

yes, i know that multiple hinges pushing that much water is a problem but it's just a discussion starter.

in fact i'm more than a little in awe that you can push that much water and not have your c-clamp and/or swim platform end up looking like a pretzel!

guess the end point i'd head for is "can you cobble a set-up that would avoid that second hinge and yet allows you to adjust the plane of the gate"

and "if you can make that angle adjustment just how much does it change your wave"?

My buddy and I were discussing this, but the only angle in that plane that makes much sense is one that makes the gate line up with the side of the boat so it can "extend" the boat on that side and properly delay the convergence of the wakes. I was wondering what kind of wild looking waves you could come up with if you used one hinge to match the side of the boat, but twisted or shaped the gate itself in different ways. Could get wild. I'm sure Malibu will work at different shapes and sizes of gates over the next few years. It will be cool to see what they come up with.

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Isn't your "redneck-gate" basically acting like a trim tab and lifting the non-surf side? Why would you weight that side of the boat? You're trying to lift it to sink the surf side, right? :Doh: Granted, I'm just a slalom dog and, to be honest, people screwing up the water surfing just piss me off, but shouldn't all of the weight be on the surf side? Everything I've ever read about wakesurfing says all weight on surf side.

Makes no sense whatsoever. pushing the water out with the gate on the non-surf side isnt "lifting" anything... it delays the convergence of the wakes, pushes the water OUT.

surfgate seems to work best evenly weighted.... or perhaps as he is suggesting, and what i saw last weekend...60/40ish weighted to the surfside, very subtle lean surfside makes a really nice surfwake...... vs 70/30, 80/20, 90/10 extreme gansta lean which is what most folks were doing prior to surfgate to get a clean wave... gouging the water with the rear corner of the boat.

If you put all the weight on the surfside, it'll raise the surfgate on the opposite side out of the water and it'd be worthless.

you'd have a rough time on my lake if folks surfing piss you off.

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Nice job buddy!

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Is the low speed steering sufficiently hindered to the point where you feel it compromises safety when picking up a downed rider? If you're struggling to get it on the trailer I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with a surfer in the water. Obviouly you are just prototyping (which we are very appreciative of!) but it does make me somewhat question the commercial viability of a fixed/manual gate. I suspect that people will ultimately settle on a trim tab derived setup that they can retract easily. Keep up the good work...can' wait to we get this dialed in!

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