Vapor Lock again

[dalt1]

Just curious how many others other than me have issues with vapor lock and what year and engine is involved? I have fought with it ever since changing to ethanol laced fuel 3 years ago. Any time boat is ran long or hard and shut down and allowed to soak all that heat into fuel system, it will lock up. Takes 45 minutes to an hour to cool down enough to start and run properly again. I have now added a second bilge blower to add more fresh cool air to the engine compartment when stopped. So far that has not helped as I had it directed directly at the fuel pump. I am thinking it may be needed up under the aluminum cover on top of the engine as that seems to be the hottest area under the hood. Can some one explain or show me a pic of exactly where the fuel rail and the shrader relief valve are on the Monsoon? Both sides? I don't know if it is the pump or fuel rails that are being vaporized. Runs perfect after it cools enough to turn fuel back to liquid.

[68Slalom]

What thermostat do you have?

[shawndoggy]

other than the fact that the boat won't start when warm, what vapor lock symptoms do you have? Do you actually get vapor when venting the fuel rail? Does pouring cool water over the fuel pump help?

[dalt1]

160 Deg thermostat. Holds perfect @160. Pouring cold water over pump usually does the trick but not yesterday. Don't know where to vent fuel rail, any pics of where the schrader valve is to do that? Boat will start but won,t run, coughs sputters, . If I keep trying to get it smoothed out it will eventually not start at all. Cool down for 45 to 60 minutes and perfect. Stopping for rider changes is no problem,always restarts fine. Problem is when we stop and it heat soaks for over 10 minutes, then it will lock up.

[REW]

Happens to me when we stop at the sand bar to swim, same symptoms and issues. My fix is to open the motor box to let the heat out, works well for me.

[shawndoggy]

This is my thread.

http://www.themalibu...ay/page__st__40

Seems that 2006 boats (at least some of them) may have inadequate power wire from the starter and block to the battery in the observer's compartment. My boat behaved much like yours... BUT I would only rarely get a sputter and die scenario. More often just lots of cranking and no start. This is apparently an issue very peculiar to 2006 boats... and not all of them. My boat had 2awg from the starter to the battery. New boats have 2/0.

Do you also cycle the key up several times before cranking (to get the fuel pump to prime a few times) when it won't start? I went so far as to add a piggyback second low pressure fuel pump, which is a vapor lock fix that indmar developed for supras. I was told by indmar from the get go that they didn't think it was vapor lock (they don't have this issue with 06 Malibus, I was told), but that if vapor lock was the cause of my no start problem, the secondary pump should fix the issue. Of course indmar was right -- the secondary pump didn't fix my issue because vapor lock turned out NOT to be the issue at all.

Does your computer throw any codes when it won't start? We got on the right track with my issue when my tech discovered that there were a whole bunch of low voltage codes.

Another way to PROVE that its the gas is to search for someone locally who sells non-ethanol fuel. There is a shop in my area (easy to find by calling fuel distributors) that I was going to try, but the voltage issue ended up fixing the problem, so I never had to. We spent many 100 degree days on the lake after that and never had a problem with starting. All on 87 octane 10% ethanol gas (at 4000' too).

Edited May 29, 2011 by shawndoggy

[Ski & Foot 4 Fun]

Just curious how many others other than me have issues with vapor lock and what year and engine is involved? I have fought with it ever since changing to ethanol laced fuel 3 years ago. Any time boat is ran long or hard and shut down and allowed to soak all that heat into fuel system, it will lock up. Takes 45 minutes to an hour to cool down enough to start and run properly again. I have now added a second bilge blower to add more fresh cool air to the engine compartment when stopped. So far that has not helped as I had it directed directly at the fuel pump. I am thinking it may be needed up under the aluminum cover on top of the engine as that seems to be the hottest area under the hood. Can some one explain or show me a pic of exactly where the fuel rail and the shrader relief valve are on the Monsoon? Both sides? I don't know if it is the pump or fuel rails that are being vaporized. Runs perfect after it cools enough to turn fuel back to liquid.

I have a 06 LXi, which is DD so a different setup from yours. But I had the problem, thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I have owned the boat for only 1 season but had this problem at the end of last year. I was doing a footing run with no wind, we stopped let it sit for 15 -20, and it wouldn't start. Turned over but wouldn't start. Indmar rep, Larry, thought it was vapor lock, maybe fuel filter was a little clogged which would raise pressure and lower vapor temp, so suggested I change that. Local dealer said he has seen this a lot and thought maybe running high Octane fuel may help, I currently run mid grade. I talked to Malibu folks when I toured the factory and they said it happens and for me to pull one of the drink holder cups out that is above the fuel filter !! I do run the blue Sta-bil in every tank. I put in new fuel filter, I will continue to run mid grade fuel, and if I am running it hard and stop, with no wind, I will pull the drink holder.

[dalt1]

Shawndoggy, I am still leaning toward fuel issue. Mine will always fire just won't run smooth. If I continue to try starting while hot,(4 or 5 times) it will eventually not fire at all. Yesterday (90 degrees) was the worst yet. Left me stuck for about an hour and a half. I finally pulled the fuel line loose at the top of the fuel pump to check for it pumping and hopefully vent any vapor. After I did that, it started right up and ran perfect. Of coarse, I don't like having to allow fuel vapors into my bilge. Made sure to ventilate completely before restarting. I still don't know where that valve is that people speak of to check for vapor. Anyone help me out with that? If I buy a fuel pressure gauge, where would it be hooked up in the fuel line? If your vaporized will it read 0? I am thinking about the secondary pump install now. Got to try something or never shut down till back at the ramp, or prepare to stay for over an hour. Is there a return line back to the tank for fuel that don't get used? When you cycle the pump and it don't start, where does the fuel go?

[dalt1]

How do I know if my computer has thrown codes? Nothing comes up on the screen. Can I scroll somewhere in the screen to check for codes?

[shawndoggy]

The schrader valve is on the fuel rail. Just follow the fuel line out of the pump.

The secondary pump sounds like it might be a good solution. You can build it from parts from napa if you want to save some dough, but it won't come with the plug and play harness.

I'd call indmar tech support and ask for help. They will definitely talk you through some diagnostic steps.

[dalt1]

The schrader valve is on the fuel rail. Just follow the fuel line out of the pump.

The secondary pump sounds like it might be a good solution. You can build it from parts from napa if you want to save some dough, but it won't come with the plug and play harness.

I'd call indmar tech support and ask for help. They will definitely talk you through some diagnostic steps.

You don/t want to sell your secondary pump do you? Come on take it off and ship to me. I will give Indmar a call this week. I have talked to Larry before but never committed to the price of the pump. What price, about $225 if I remember? I would like to run this tank of Green Stabil treated 89 octane 10% Ethanol fuel out and try pure fuel again just to see if it matters. I have tried to trace the fuel line but it disapears shortly after the pump. Is there two valves one for each side or only 1 for the whole system. Which side would it be on port or starboard? Somebody has to be able to help me find it. I will dig a little deeper next chance I have.

This problem is getting serious, I almost ran out of beverages yesterday waiting for this to cool down enough to restart and run.

[shawndoggy]

yes, it was $240ish with shipping. $225 sounds right. Pretty sure you could build it yourself with a $120 fuel pump and $10 worth of wiring accessories.

The thing the fuel line disappears into should be the fuel rail.

[dalt1]

What I would like to do is be able to hit the relief valve next time it is locked up and see if relieving it gets me going again without waiting 45 minutes to an hour. I know I have to be careful with the fuel in the bilge and be fully ventilated before restarting. But I can't do that if I can't find the Schrader valve.

[Pistol Pete]

Once you find the schrader valve, all you need is to buy one of these.

First, once you plug this into the schrader valve, you will know what the fuel pressure is at all times.

Second, if you really think you have vapor lock, you can push the button on the side of this guage which will allow the fuel (or vapor) to flow out the clear tube and into your USCG approved gas can. Then, by turning the key a few times to purge out the vapor, you should be on your way.

Disclaimer: I have never done this, to me, it should work in theory. For a $40 fuel pressure guage, you should eliminate $40 worth of throwing parts at your boat. Also, this guage will work on modern F.l. cars.

[woody]

Once you find the schrader valve, all you need is to buy one of these.

First, once you plug this into the schrader valve, you will know what the fuel pressure is at all times.

Second, if you really think you have vapor lock, you can push the button on the side of this guage which will allow the fuel (or vapor) to flow out the clear tube and into your USCG approved gas can. Then, by turning the key a few times to purge out the vapor, you should be on your way.

Disclaimer: I have never done this, to me, it should work in theory. For a $40 fuel pressure guage, you should eliminate $40 worth of throwing parts at your boat. Also, this guage will work on modern F.l. cars.

Pete you always seem to find all the right accessories for the job.

[Pistol Pete]

I'm getting tired of reading vapor lock threads.

Apparently, these poor people that are stuck with corn gas got it bad. The real reason fuel boils and or turns to vapor is because of a loss of pressure in the fuel rail. I guess these boats don't have a rest pressure check valve. Cars do and this is what prevents vapor lock. I do understand that the corn gas is a whole 'nother animal.

Edit, BTW, Woody, I carry a digital fuel pressure guage connected to my Snap On Vantage and an analog guage as a back up in my boat.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Pistol Pete

[Ndawg12]

I put a towel on top of the fuel pump and the lines immediately running out of the pump. Then I pour a cold bottle of water on the towel, usually going again in about 10-15 minutes, 45 minutes is way too long!!

[dalt1]

Sorry Pete for you having to read all this, but I am just looking to the best resource I have to help me fix my problem. (Malibu Crew Rocks) Ndawg, normally mine reacts the same way, cool pump with water and 10 minutes or so it is good to go. Not Sunday though.

I am starting to lean toward pressure bleed down during long stop and allowing fuel to vaporize. I will keep you posted if I get any resolution. Sorry in advance to PETE!

[Pistol Pete]

I am actually trying to help you here, bro.

Why not do the fuel guage idea, I would try it.

[dalt1]

Thanks Pete I will do that, Also plan on putting on new distributor cap and rotor on since it has over 700 hrs on it. Wondering if maybe heat is affecting it? Any one have a part # for them?

[Ndawg12]

Thanks Pete I will do that, Also plan on putting on new distributor cap and rotor on since it has over 700 hrs on it. Wondering if maybe heat is affecting it? Any one have a part # for them?

Rotor

cap

[dalt1]

Rotor

cap

Thanks Ndawg.

Edited June 1, 2011 by dalt1

[BuFootin]

Happens to me when we stop at the sand bar to swim, same symptoms and issues. My fix is to open the motor box to let the heat out, works well for me.

I feel your pain dude. Same issue with my 05 Monsoon. Fix for me is I turn on the blower if I plan to sit still for more than about 15 minutes to keep cool air running through the engine box. Also, a cold damp towel wrapped around the fuel pump always works. Not sure I'd recommend dumping cold water on the pump though.

Do you always fuel up at the same gas station?

[REW]

I feel your pain dude. Same issue with my 05 Monsoon. Fix for me is I turn on the blower if I plan to sit still for more than about 15 minutes to keep cool air running through the engine box. Also, a cold damp towel wrapped around the fuel pump always works. Not sure I'd recommend dumping cold water on the pump though.

Do you always fuel up at the same gas station?

Yea pretty much the same station. There is not really any choice on where I buy gas for the Bu'. Only one station that I can get it into anywhere near where I live. There is a sign for a new station comming soon but the sign has been there for the entire time I have been in Charlotte. I know I am gettin corn gas and not really much I can do about it. I have dumped water on the pump multiple times including yesterday to cool things off. Only issue is you end up with 4 or 10 large cups of water in the bildge. I have been known to run the blower as well to try to get the heat out.

[PUskier]

I just saw this thread and thought I would add my experience. My boat is much older with a different fuel pump, but I was having vapor lock whenever the engine was shut down for more than 30 minutes or so. It would lock on the suction side of the pump. I tried several fixes, but ended up adding a secondary fuel pump. I added mine right at the tank, so the only section of hose not under fuel pressure was in the tank and about 12" leading to the pump. I have never had a problem since. Hope this helps and good luck.