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Infamous HDS leak

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looks great Hedgehog!!!

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Very nice work, Hedgehog! And absolutely it is going to float. Thumbup.gif

Question: what did you put on your original form to keep the glass/resin from bonding to it?

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I draped wax paper over the mold and secured it on the bottom with masking tape.

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I have been on the snowmobile forums for most of my winter months and just started thinking about having to fix this problem of mine again.

Bob,

Your repair looks awesome very nice work! You did a great write up and it will help many of us out on the board if it works come spring :) I have a couple of questions for you. Did you end up putting your cover back on to make it look clean? Did you glass and seal under the drive shaft with the same cloth and resin that is used in the rest of the project? Do you use anything to clean or rough up the existing fiberglass surfaces before laying new material down? As you can tell I am a noob to fiberglassing but I want to learn and I have to start somewhere.

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I have been on the snowmobile forums for most of my winter months and just started thinking about having to fix this problem of mine again.

Bob,

Your repair looks awesome very nice work! You did a great write up and it will help many of us out on the board if it works come spring :) I have a couple of questions for you. Did you end up putting your cover back on to make it look clean? Did you glass and seal under the drive shaft with the same cloth and resin that is used in the rest of the project? Do you use anything to clean or rough up the existing fiberglass surfaces before laying new material down? As you can tell I am a noob to fiberglassing but I want to learn and I have to start somewhere.

First of all I didn't do the repair myself, I had it done by a professional Fiberglass repair man. It was his idea to leave the box in tact for looks. And Yes the cover is back on. Unless you know it was touched, you can't tell it by looking.

The underside looks as though he didn't touch it. But there's not alot of room under there anyway.

I am SO very happy with the results. The boat is dry everytime I pull it out of the water. I swear the boat sounds quieter, but may just be our imagination.

Edited by Sunset_Bob

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I have been on the snowmobile forums for most of my winter months and just started thinking about having to fix this problem of mine again.

Bob,

Your repair looks awesome very nice work! You did a great write up and it will help many of us out on the board if it works come spring :) I have a couple of questions for you. Did you end up putting your cover back on to make it look clean? Did you glass and seal under the drive shaft with the same cloth and resin that is used in the rest of the project? Do you use anything to clean or rough up the existing fiberglass surfaces before laying new material down? As you can tell I am a noob to fiberglassing but I want to learn and I have to start somewhere.

First of all I didn't do the repair myself, I had it done by a professional Fiberglass repair man. It was his idea to leave the box in tact for looks. And Yes the cover is back on. Unless you know it was touched, you can't tell it by looking.

The underside looks as though he didn't touch it. But there's not alot of room under there anyway.

I am SO very happy with the results. The boat is dry everytime I pull it out of the water. I swear the boat sounds quieter, but may just be our imagination.

Sorry I should have spelled out which Bob I was trying to get. This question was directed towards Hedgehogbob. Sorry for the confusion.

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No, I did not put the cover back on. I couldn’t see the point since the whole thing is hidden underneath the floor. I would’ve had to do additional fiberglass work just to have something to screw the cover onto(I could come back and do all that later). The surface prep of the existing fiberglass is VERY important. It needs to be clean and somewhat rough in order for the repair to adhere to it. I used a die grinder to cut the box open but I used a dremel tool with various small grinding bits to do most of the surface prep. It was quite difficult using the dremel tool in such a tight area....all the while trying not to touch the drive shaft with the grinder bit. I used the same epoxy resin for the entire project. I did put emphasis on the work I did underneath the drive shaft...thought that could be a problem area(leaking) down the road. You might notice that I went back and roughed up all the fiberglass that I had laid underneath the drive shaft. I did this to ensure that all additional layers would adhere well.

During my work I had to grind out some of the original “marine adhesive” that holds these boats together. It is soft, yucky stuff. I remember, years back, Malibu claiming that their marine adhesive is stronger than the fiberglass itself. That’s a load of crap. I believe that Correct Craft and Mastercraft use some similiar products and in their manufacturing process. Makes me wonder if all these boats are going to be falling apart 20 or 30 years down the line.

That said, I think the hull design on my Response is great. It drives so good, and leaves a great wake for slalom and trick. I hope it’s around for many years to come.

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I have been on the snowmobile forums for most of my winter months and just started thinking about having to fix this problem of mine again.

Bob,

Your repair looks awesome very nice work! You did a great write up and it will help many of us out on the board if it works come spring :) I have a couple of questions for you. Did you end up putting your cover back on to make it look clean? Did you glass and seal under the drive shaft with the same cloth and resin that is used in the rest of the project? Do you use anything to clean or rough up the existing fiberglass surfaces before laying new material down? As you can tell I am a noob to fiberglassing but I want to learn and I have to start somewhere.

First of all I didn't do the repair myself, I had it done by a professional Fiberglass repair man. It was his idea to leave the box in tact for looks. And Yes the cover is back on. Unless you know it was touched, you can't tell it by looking.

The underside looks as though he didn't touch it. But there's not alot of room under there anyway.

I am SO very happy with the results. The boat is dry everytime I pull it out of the water. I swear the boat sounds quieter, but may just be our imagination.

Sorry I should have spelled out which Bob I was trying to get. This question was directed towards Hedgehogbob. Sorry for the confusion.

Sorry, MY BAD. Whistling.gif

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No, I did not put the cover back on. I couldn’t see the point since the whole thing is hidden underneath the floor. I would’ve had to do additional fiberglass work just to have something to screw the cover onto(I could come back and do all that later). The surface prep of the existing fiberglass is VERY important. It needs to be clean and somewhat rough in order for the repair to adhere to it. I used a die grinder to cut the box open but I used a dremel tool with various small grinding bits to do most of the surface prep. It was quite difficult using the dremel tool in such a tight area....all the while trying not to touch the drive shaft with the grinder bit. I used the same epoxy resin for the entire project. I did put emphasis on the work I did underneath the drive shaft...thought that could be a problem area(leaking) down the road. You might notice that I went back and roughed up all the fiberglass that I had laid underneath the drive shaft. I did this to ensure that all additional layers would adhere well.

During my work I had to grind out some of the original “marine adhesive” that holds these boats together. It is soft, yucky stuff. I remember, years back, Malibu claiming that their marine adhesive is stronger than the fiberglass itself. That’s a load of crap. I believe that Correct Craft and Mastercraft use some similiar products and in their manufacturing process. Makes me wonder if all these boats are going to be falling apart 20 or 30 years down the line.

That said, I think the hull design on my Response is great. It drives so good, and leaves a great wake for slalom and trick. I hope it’s around for many years to come.

Hedgehogbob, what brand/type of epoxy and fiberglass cloth did you use or prefer to use? I was looking around online and there are soo many different choices.

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I can't recall where I got the epoxy resin...ordered it off the internet. I went with who was the cheapest. I ordered a gallon of resin and a half gallon of hardener. I had tons of resin left over. The cloth I used is from a bulk roll that I bought about 15 years ago. It's kind of in between a heavy and a light cloth. I wouldn't want to use any cloth heavier than what I used, it would be too hard to do the 90 degree corners. With lighter cloth you can always add more and more layers in order to get the strength you need. When you cut the cloth it is helpful to cut along the weave(threads), that way you get less loose threads dangling around. I might consider building the "shaft log" part for someone wanting to repair their own boat.

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Hey Bob- your initial impression after the repair was that the boat was smoother w/o the HDS...still the case? The repair looks great!

I think it is, and the wife says it is quieter also. I think they did a GREAT JOB on it. I would reconmend this to anyone who has the Hydrophonicboatfillerupper System. Visit Farmers Fiberglass Rockon.gif

thanks bob for the kind words. Rockon.gif but it may be smoother & quieter because we took our time doing the alignment. we try to get them down to where a .002 feeler blade won't fit. i have been doing alignments since 1992 & never had one come back with a noise or vibration. [knock on wood] thanks. mike farmer. ps this is my first post so if it don't look right i will get better at it. Thumbup.gif

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I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for thier help with this. I ended up taking "Hedgebob's" approach to the fix and I have sucessfully water tested my boat. No more leaks! My fiberglass work doesnt look quite as pretty as Hedgebob's but nonetheless it is functional. This was the first time I had ever fiberglassed and it is much easier than I anticipated. Thanks again!

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Are they still using HDS? I don't see it listed as a 'Feature' anymore.

Hedgehogbob, If these things keep failing you may be able to make a little $$ by selling the part and materials to fellow Crew members. If mine fails I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain.

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Are they still using HDS? I don't see it listed as a 'Feature' anymore.

Hedgehogbob, If these things keep failing you may be able to make a little $$ by selling the part and materials to fellow Crew members. If mine fails I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain.

Still using--my 08 has it.

Yours is very unlikely to fail, unless you hit something and structurally weaken the area.

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TTT

I am looking at a Sportster from the original owner that has the HDS stuffing box & have a few questions regarding it. I asked if it leaks and if he's hit anything, and if the boat has the infamous HDS leak...

1. the prop, shaft, rudder took a stump hit and all 3 were replaced by the dealer (well known) the second year of ownership (7-8 years ago). Owner claims no fiberglass damage occured, no adverse vibrations, transmission issues or engine problems since.

2. dealer "repacked" stuffing box once, and he claims it may need it again, but it was a month long wait for the dealer to service (reasonable this time of year), so he didn't do it. Said it cost $70

I would love to hear the crew's thoughts on this, I'm seriously looking at this boat, the owner has been up front and it looks like its in great shape.

I would assume the reputable dealer would check alignment after the damage occured and I will contact them before I bought the boat.

TIA

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When you look at the boat, take a hose and fill the bilge with water to cover the box. If it leaks out around the shaft, you know you have a problem. HDS issues are few and far between, but definitely a concern with this vintage boat.

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okay thanks Martho, I will do that when I go look at the boat, I'm just trying to save myself a 6hr trip if its not worth looking at...

Since the owner has said "it needs to be repacked" what should I read into this? what about his comment of $70 to do it? I am not familiar with the HDS and what kind of maintenance it requires, what relation it has to the stuffing box, etc..

is the stuffing box needing packing in any way connected to the HDS and the fact that this boat took a hit a number of years ago?

thanks

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is the stuffing box needing packing in any way connected to the HDS and the fact that this boat took a hit a number of years ago?

thanks

No. There is a seal that goes around the propshaft to keep water from leaking into the boat (it will drip a little bit unless it's the newer dripless packing). It's a wear item and has to be replaced every so often. It's easy to do. The $70 the dealer charged was probably for the packing and a half hour of maintenance. You can do it yourself pretty easily if you're concerned, but you won't likely need it again for some time.

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Thanks UW, I'm not familiar with the HDS, so wanted to make sure this is seperate from the "hit" the boat took years before Cheers.gif

its had it done once before which is a bit of a concern because it only has about 200hrs... but its a 10 year old boat?? would this be normal at all?

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6 hour drive = gas money and time.

You may have the local dealer check the HDS. I bet you could pay them a couple hours labor and be close to even money.

You might check with Peter or Wes and see what a dealer would charge to check out the boat. IMO: you would be way ahead of things not driving that far and having an answer from the dealer.

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thanks again Martho, very helpful.. I would never have asked this owner these questions and he was not aware of these problems. I also called the local dealer and they said it would be unlikely that the hit from years ago would be causing problems this many years later, but the hds could still be an issue and/or the packing may need redoing or possibly only an adjustment.

at the end of the day it might just be the packing, and/or the packing nut. I asked if he could do the bilge test and said he would. He's being very up front about everything which is good & in all honestly even if it needed work on the HDS I may be able to get it for less (asking $16k 99 sporty base model) and do the shaft log fix that others have done here.

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I have been documenting my saga in

The latest is I have the Infamous HDS leak and had a couple of questions.

I took the top of the box off and dried the entire box out, then filled bilge full of water and lo and behold I had water seeping in from the back of the box and no other places.

Has anyone just tried to grind out the crack a little to creat a channel and then use either Marine tex or my preference and use 3M 5200.

Edited by rayn

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Grind out the crack? Huh? How are you going the know the length or depth of the crack. I would stick to a proven repair method.

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I just meant, create a little channel for the sealant to go in and grab onto.

Seems like an easy fix(maybe too easy), was hoping someone tried this already.

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Grind out the crack? Huh? How are you going the know the length or depth of the crack. I would stick to a proven repair method.

Dude, that is the repair method.

Grind it out and fill will plexus.

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